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Post by KJ Gould on Jun 23, 2011 10:31:14 GMT -5
No, not from Eddie. Though his first affiliate gym in the UK claims 10th planet is a mix of catch and BJJ. Maybe he's trying to get on the marketing wagon.
I've no idea about Thesz and Carpentier. I keep hearing it brought up and I keep thinking "Yeah, but wouldn't that be a worked Pro Wrestling match?"
I'd need a lot more details and time to research it.
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Post by KJ Gould on Jun 16, 2011 17:25:38 GMT -5
You mention someone named Kris Iatskevich and a google search, to get more info about his seminars, returned some interesting results: www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=93095&page=1and proteinwisdom.com/?p=16750Not sure what to believe but the article might have sparked the future of Catch As Catch Can Wrestling from the CSW camp? Dunno. Seems the unity of Catch is far more complicated than we realized. Seems there is a vast American Catch "Hooker" heritage that isn't part of the communities discussion. Interesting read. If you read beyond the first page on Bullshido, you'll see the Bullshido regulars end up ripping JeffG to shreds for being a cecchine apologist and learning catch wrestling via webcam. Say what you will about the certified catch wrestling thing scientific wrestling does, but at least that requires you to be there in person and get on the mat and you'll be with guys who have legit backgrounds in other arts such as Brandon Ruiz (Greco Roman, BJJ) Sam Kressin (BJJ) and former amateur wrestlers who were collegiate level or competed in the armed forces divisions. Plus it doesn't make you a catch wrestler, it just documents you've spent so many hours with direct instruction under Billy Robinson. That's it.
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Post by KJ Gould on Jun 16, 2011 17:11:09 GMT -5
honestly i am afraid to purchase any of his material after watching a video of him being tutored by billy wicks.really awkward. Cecchine was new to those kind of leg rides. I've not watched the video recently but it was a Ball & Chain ride / Ankle ride, right? He does show a good ability to ride from Head & Arm position as seen in LAOH, and his side control / cross body ride is ok but nothing revolutionary (if you want the top technical quality on riding and pinning I'd look elsewhere). I'd argue Cecchine has learned more about the actual wrestling side of things since LAOH than before it. Otherwise the most value he brings is on the finishing holds ... but I guess that's why it was called the Lost Art of Hooking and not the Lost Art of Catch Wrestling. The other issue I have is trying to market it like the Traditional Martial Arts do and that's "This is for the street! It's too dangerous for sport! Learn to kill a man in a single blow!" even if in the material he points out the importance of strength & conditioning as well as non-compliant sparring. This type of marketing is problematic to say the least as the majority of TMA's that do this are shown to be scams or complete fantasy make believe in effectiveness and Cecchine has allowed himself to be tangled up in that. As a result his Double Trouble tape where he shows ways of adapting Catch for Gi based BJJ ends up being the most authentic from a presentation and marketing stand point and does actually paint Cecchine in a better light. This is what I would personally suggest to address cerain issues with Cecchine 1) You catch more flies with honey. You don't have to be conceited, but the patronising negative bullshit has to stop. Nobody likes or listens to a curmudgeon. 2) Your way is not the only way. Catch Wrestlers have different approaches but are still successful at what they do. Lou Thesz was not a carbon copy of Ed Lewis or George Tragos, Frank Gotch was not a carbon copy of Farmer Burns, John Pesek was not a carbon copy of Joe Stecher and so on and so forth. It's the same in BJJ where Marcelo Garcia does not grapple the same way as Pablo Popovitch who does not grapple the same way as Roger Gracie or Robert Drysdale. With this in mind as well as point no#1 approach it as "this is the way I prefer to do such and such" or "I've found this to be a better and more efficient way et cetera". 3) People care more about what you have to offer as a teacher or coach, and not about how you may or may not have been slighted and who may or may not have slighted you. Let your 'art' speak for itself. 4) Do a better job of promoting your students especially those who compete. It's great that you coach high school wrestling, let us know which students are doing well in state tournaments and so on. Also let us know of guys competing in NAGA, Grapplers Quest and beyond. I've seen some of your supporters comment on youtube videos of guys trained under Karl Gotch (for example) who lose a submission or MMA match and make snarky comments, but at least they competed and at least people can see it. Post video of your students win or lose and they'll get respect from me for actually going out there and getting on the mat.
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Post by KJ Gould on Jun 16, 2011 16:45:37 GMT -5
Is there video of it anywhere?
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Post by KJ Gould on Jun 6, 2011 6:04:50 GMT -5
Billy's not going to move to new york if anyone is hoping for that. He's in Arkansas to be close to his son who I believe served in the US millitary, plus it's generally warmer in Arkansas. Because Billy was a pro wrestler he doesn't have a pension which is why he does the seminars and camps because that is his pension fund (as well as his dvds). So he does do a couple of seminars a year in New York I believe.
Also don't forget to get Kris Iatskevich down from Montreal for seminars, at least that's a short flight to new york.
It's a shame but Billy's two main assistant coaches are southern california based (and Harry Smith is still with WWE and is otherwise Florida based).
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Post by KJ Gould on May 28, 2011 19:09:48 GMT -5
How available a book is that scuffler?
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Post by KJ Gould on May 28, 2011 19:09:12 GMT -5
So I'm watching some of his videos from Snap no Tap for the first time, some of which looks alright and some I'm not so sure on, but it feels like every five minutes he stops to have a bitch about "those so called catch wrestlers ripping off my videos, not doing it right" and "those fake pro wrestlers and their bullshit" (saying he won't name any names in the process etc) and it just takes away from any good thing he's teaching imo.
It's like dude, seriously, fill in that chip on both shoulders and quit being so antagonistic. If you're not going to name names, just shut up already about it. Stick to "this is how I do it and why I think it's the most effective way" focusing on the actual technique and not why everyone else is "doing it wrong".
Am I right? ;D
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Post by KJ Gould on May 28, 2011 18:00:39 GMT -5
Nice! Will have to see what's on there.
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Post by KJ Gould on May 28, 2011 6:23:14 GMT -5
Yeah I remember World of Sport. Every now and again you can find re-runs on some obscure channel. Got to see a good amount on the short lived Wrestling Channel that became Fight Network only to have the plug pulled due to bleeding money.
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Post by KJ Gould on May 28, 2011 6:21:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought it was the same scuffler at first but sadly it was just a coincidence.
As far as I know Collar & Elbow wrestling is predominantly Irish and merged with other styles to form the American strain of Catch Wrestling (which became scholastic American folkstyle wrestling). I'm really unsure about it's current status and presumed it was a dead art.
Cornish wrestling still exists but from the little I've seen mostly as exhibition demonstrations at fairs and carnivals in the South West of England.
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Post by KJ Gould on May 27, 2011 18:27:06 GMT -5
Yeah I just received that email as well. They're going to be closing down, and are having a Buy One Get One Free sale (though a bit convoluted, you buyg what you want first then email them to say what you want free and they'll add it to your account.
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Post by KJ Gould on May 19, 2011 15:38:07 GMT -5
Not sure, but I do know the guy that runs it posts stuff on the Sherdog F12 boards. I think he posts as Dahlio. We could always ask him.
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Post by KJ Gould on May 9, 2011 17:58:04 GMT -5
Takedowns against a striking opponent is covered pretty well by Erik Paulson in CSW essentials volume 1
Darell Gholar's dvds always get recommended. They were originally a VHS series and the technique is good but there's no multiple angles. He has MMA in mind and was the coach for Brazillian Top Team.
Otherwise there's Kevin Jackson and Mike Van Arnsdale's Ultimate Takedowns.
I've not seen the Russian Wrestling tapes but they looked pretty interesting from the youtube previews.
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Post by KJ Gould on May 3, 2011 16:07:49 GMT -5
wigan-mma.com/schedule/Where it says 'MMA' I'm pretty sure that's Rigby, and it'll be Catch Wrestling dominant. Best contact the people at the site to make sure
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Post by KJ Gould on May 3, 2011 16:06:16 GMT -5
If he's not at Kaobon in Liverpool, I believe he teaches in Wigan. There should be a thread here somewhere I'll try to find.
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